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here is part 3



Moses also killed some egyptian... But is saint or something like that in Jewdaism - founder of religion... Maybe people think it is ok...

same they all think it is ok if Radhanatha was behind Kirtan-da to kill Sulocana...

They simply think Sulocana is some "pagan" and not true "Christian, monotheist Hare Krishna"...

"Art requires sacrifice." So they sacrificed Sulocana for sake of Prabhupada or New Vrindavana art?

 then a few idiots from the ISKCON environment are saying this is all crazy-ness. It is a common technique "argumentum ad hominem" -- attacking the character of your opponent instead of answering his points.]

*** However, I asked him few more questions: "Wait! Do you believe in Krishna? Just give me direct answer - Yes or No. Is there Krishna or no, what is your opinion, candidate of theology?"

He said: "No, there is no Krishna, I don't believe in Him"...

I thought - "Hm, what a man! He just said - that he is candidate of theology - that he is religious man - or even priest - and now he says - no God, no Krishna! What is this?"

[PADA: Hah hah, you caught him, good job! Bravo!]

No, it is was quite easy =-)
he looks like simple human... Prabhupada says - demons may look nice...
it is only by what they say you can know who is he - demon or demigod, devotee or atheist...

maybe i'll write some articles - thought which appeared after i talked against this atheist...

*** But I tried to check him more. I asked about Balarama, and more merciful - Caitanya and Nityananda.

So I asked: "And what about Balarama? Do you believe Balarama exists? Do you believe that Caitanya and NItyananda exist?"

He asked : "And who are they?"

I said : "Balarama - brother of Krishna, and Caitanya and NItyananda - are their avataras 500 years ago"...

He said - "No, no, there are no such persons / Gods which you are talking about." So that was his conclusion. I tried to tell him more about Krishna - but he ran away. Actually that time his "lecture" had to start. So he came to students, and gave a "lecture" on the Quran. Some other man was there from the Muslim side. So Duluman said - "Religion is sin, because God, Allah killed many men. And atheism is, I say, holy thing" I was shocked to hear this!

[PADA: Well this is what happens, when religion is mis-used it makes people turn away 

so, PADA. I want to tell you something... if you think that religion in hands of atheist can become some "weapon" against religion - then ... what is actually purpose of your site?

don't you think that some sectologists like Dvorkin are simply using information from sites like yours to discriminate ISKCON and ban Bhagavad-Gita as it is and so on etc...

Don't you think that in certain cases PADA can become enemy of devotees?

and start to blame God / religion for all the troubles created by these false religions. 

so God is not at fault? demons are at fault that they made Krishna a "killer of demons"?

but then who is right?

just...

i was in one Church.

and there priest said - "some people criticise us...

but I know who are they... they cooperate with atheists...

We pray for them that they get purified...

becasue who is doing like that? 

Jewdah was like that... he went to Jesus to let him die... crucified"

one shouldn't do like that - one should not cooperate with atheists to proove someone inside religion is wrong...

and if so... then one should not find faults of some people within ISKCON...

why ? beause faults are material qualities!

and concentrating on material qualities is like concentrating not on Krishna -

but on his opposite - something material, materialism. And that is close to atheism...

So probably thus it is why criticism is bad...

but i don't understand how to apply it to PADA...

to poison Prabhupada - is it criticism?

to kill Prabhupada - is it criticism? worse!

Then... those who poisoned him are like Judah, yes?

Then they are anti-God. just like ... i just read...

Satan entered into Judah... he wanted money. He showed Jesus by kissing him and Jesus was caught...

by the way. in this same story I read that... jesus ordered : "by the sword!"...

and two swords were bought!

Jesus said - enough!

so when Judah came - someone hitted someone on side of Judah.

Jesus said - no! becasue if you will rise a sword - you will be killed by it...

Then why Jesus asked to buy a sword?

...

just ... if radhanatha is holy then...

if he is like Jesus then... why he might have asked for "this to happen"...

Did he mean - kill Sulocana?

or did he mean - do not rise the sword or you will be killed by it?

then why he could have been pushing like crazy for this (murder! of DASA) to happen...?

but ... who is Sulocana?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulochana_(Ramayana)
Sulochana was the daughter of the King of the Serpents Shesha Naga, who is mentioned in the Indian epic Ramayana. She was married to Indrajit (Meghanath) who was the son of demon king Ravana, who defeated Indra, hence received his title.

Why Prabhupada gave Sulocana this name - Sulocana? 
Sulocana married son of demon Ravana?

well, certainly it is wrong to become atheist because some theist may have killed atheist,
or becasue God killed demon or Satan...
We want to be on side of God, then if someone protects us - then it is ok...
but it is strange for me why i should be scared of Sulocana and that Krishna or Narasimha would like to protect me from Sulocana dasa of NV?
Why Krishna would like to protect me from other people who were killed in NV?
and if it was not desire of Krishna, then they were not devotees?
I mean... how do you feel after Sulocana was killed?
did you know him personally?

Many people are now upset with the Krishna religion, and they have even sometimes become atheists,

I don't know such people. it is said Hare Krishna, devotee never becomes nondevotee.

Or it means they had a little faith, so it was so easily broken

 because of the way they were mistreated by the (false leaders) of the religion. Christians have a laundry list of abuses going back to the middle ages, which has produced a number of virulent atheists.

Duluman was one of them.

 That is what Srila Prabhupada warned us about, if we mistreat the children, 

New Vrindavan mistreated ISKCON DASas

they may turn away from the religion. He was correct.]

*** So I heard all the stuff which he told, and after that dispute I came up to other atheist on that event. He was some younger scientific atheist, and also - some lawyer. I came up to him and asked - "What do you think about what Lenin said - that Lenin ordered to kill as many priests as possible." The atheistic lawyer answered - "That is not true. He never told that. ... but still. you better ask Duluman. He knows better. Ask him."

Hmmm. I was quite shocked to hear this also... Lenin was head of USSR, right? And USSR was atheistic. So ... this atheist said that Lenin didn't ask to kill any priest!

[PADA: Well you are a pretty bold preacher to walk into these folks meeting and challenge them, very nice. 

=-) No, it is no problem... I just after initiation was thinking about words of Gurudev. He said: "There is no atheist in this world"... that's all...

So I though... we shouldn't doubt... and in philosophical dictionary i read - "there are atheists"...

So... i wanted to clarify this... =-)

i read from Prabhupada - "religion without philosophy - is fanaticism, speculation, sentimentalism" etc...

like that... So I got to philosophy department...

but immediately I found out i can't be there properly...

Teacher said : "marx was not a bad philosopher'...

You go to library of philosophy department - and see lenin's books there - around 50 of them - on some visible place on bookshelves in reading room...

and you are asked - "make conspect of Aristotle, Metaphysics"...

you read it - see - Aristotle said - "God is good, but other sciences are more important"...

see? thus he negates God.. Maybe he meant just Zeus.

But . prabhupada said Aristotle is like mayavadi...

And mayavadis - say "Krishna is maya"

so finally I got somehow on this dispute with atheists...

I missed first one - with christians...

but second one - atheists vs muslims - i didn't miss...

just don't remember how I got this info about dispute...

i like(d) programming , so i was also going around and looking for programmers in polytechnical institute...

and it came out that this atheists was working there, and there was ad about dispute yes...

so i got there...

doesn't it sound interesting - 

AD:

"

DULUMAN. Candidate of theology, atheists number one in Ukraine, docrtor of philsophy... on side of atheists

against 

Muslims - theists

"

So what I understood... secular religious studies are useless...

prabhupada said - many people write comments for Bhagavad Gita,

but some are even ... demons, atheists... specualtors, mayavadis... yes. they want to kill Krishna,

ban Him from of Gita...

maybe I'll make few photos here about this dispute - 

for a proof...

http://sotref.com/
it is his website of Duluman (it is in russian).
but if you translate - you can find all the story.
what he answered me -
"you are all enemies of nation! you must be killed like bugs!
you don't do anything neither material nor spiritual!
if all the people will become hare krshnas - universe will be destroyed"...
like this...

this is a photo of this atheist,

see - looks like just a man... but he is atheist and said - "there is no Krishna, someone like you must be killed, religion is a sin"...

 who died after I showed him this picture - 

you know what...

strange is that he was laughing at something which is not funny...

I showed him 9to atheist) Krishna, but he laughed at him - "ha ha, you can draw all kind of nonsense"

like that...

this was dispute with christians (above). unfortunately I didn't got there...

there is written: "Is there a God?"

and above is a tomb of Duluman =-) he died after he negated Krishna. krishna appeared to him in a form of death. Krishna appears as death to atheists...