Pada, here is my answer to you
this letter was from me. You published it online - ok.
Some people say that being "public" now is more safe than to hide anonymously. Especially if it is a question of what should be attitude towards people whom one call ... saints, and others like you - PADA - as ... sinners?
Preaching to Atheists in Russia (and analysis of PADA)
it is not Russia. we were part of it - USSR. now we are independent.
just if you don't know geography and history of Ukraine.
Hare Krishna
From: Ivan Donets (Kiev, Ukraine). Sri Caitanya Saraswat math. Initiated as Indubhushan das by Bhakti Sundar Govinda Dev Goswami Maharaj, in 2007 September, Saint Peterburgh, Lakhta.
To: angel108b@yahoo.com,
I don't know what kind of "angel" are you, but I have to tell you that I am not at all happy with your website - http://www.harekrsna.org/ I'll tell you why I tell you this.
*****
FIRST. Do you have BIOGRAPHY page?
Who are you? you are initiated?
who is your guru?
what is now your practice and position within ISKCON?
first - know person - then - decide - to learn from him or not...
Tell first - are sure that you are not offending Maharajas, Gurus or even ... saints, by calling them sinners on PADA?
I must warn, because...
I see that Duluman - who was candidate of theology - got deep into criticism against Church, that agaisnt all religion - he ended up saying - "there is no Krishna, no Balarama, Nityananda, no Caitanya, no soul, after death there is nothing, I don't want to heaven, religion is a sin, atheism is holy etc etc... If you belive in God then you must go to psychiatric hospital. Someone like you must be killed etc etc"...
he told like this. So just to protect myself from all kinds of dangers - I got out from being "anonymous".
***
I'm relatively new person in ISKCON, - several years I know ISKCON and attend some programs there. But some man from India told me
his name is Sanjay Rajhans
: "I know ISKCON very well, see who is Harikesha"... So I did what he asked and found your website
but first - Book by Dvorkin - "sectology"...
Now I know Dvorkin is "atheistic priest", not must better than Duluman. Because he wanted to Ban Bhagavad Gita as it is in Tomsk-Russia.
and some similar sites.
yes, there are some other like yours. But your claim to be protecting Prabhupada. and in name of Prabhupada - you offend some of his disciples. maybe that is not offense...
But I want to know for sure.
Becasue I thought that you are authority. Instead.
When I told something from your site against Radhanatha Swami
("he was pushing like crazy to kill Sulocana") - ISKCON kicked me out...
You say that ISKCON also kicked you out. Then why?
Then why you publish something which make others, - both you and new people in hare Krishna -
to be kicked out?
Or i don't know something?
But result of this was not very good. When I told in ISKCON that Radhanatha Swami is "murder conspirator" etc -
yes, you have 10-pages document from a court against "Rot-not"
but I have seen - the person who criticised him -
later began to worship him...
so does it mean that words against Radhanatha were wrong?
does it mean that more probably - he is saint
or at least not sinner...?
becasue he preched in many political and business places!
and also...
i wanted to make some thing like program which can "semi-automatically convert texts like Vedas into movies - speech synthesys + 3d-animation using some game engine like Unity3d"...
And heard from others that Radhanatha Swami liked it
he said - "it is a future of preching"...
so why you are agasint him?
I would have probably worked and earned some money now if I didn't read your criticism agasint ISKCON,
and this probably wouldmn't have let me to suicidal thoughts or as result of insuccessful life - criticism agasint ISKCON leaders (as more responsible for all what happen)...
just what you wrote on your site - they felt very unhappy and asked me never to come to ISKCON again.
yes, I want to come again. But because of you, i even unintentionally called one man "hiranyakashipu"...
I asked him for forgiveness. he didn't.
So probably you are wrong that you made this website.
[PADA: Radhanath swami had been a big leader in the New Vrndavana (Kirtanananda) program
wait. isn't Kirtanananda was imprisoned for killed Sulocana?
wasn't Kirtan-ananada - the one who wanted to kill Sulocana?
did he even wanted to?
maybe they - both - Kirtan-da, and Radh-nath - they didn't want to kill anyone?
But they said jokingly - "some people in New Vrindavan are distructing us from preaching.
they must be silent. Do not criticise. They should not be like asuras or atheists"...
though... it seems that Kirtan-ananada also though about Sulocana as a... "snake"???
devotee is not disturbed when snake is killed?
human is not a snake...
why sulocana was considered a snake?
... i know that... Sulocana was somewhere in New Vrindavan
running with a gun... did he really wanted to kill some one?
did he really ... did Sulocana really liked that some person crashed head of Kirtan-da?
is Sulocana Ahura-Mazda?
I 've read that Sulocana is a name of some relative of Ravana or something...
then why Prabhupada initiated him?
***********
which had many crimes going on,
who is responsible for that?
Kirtanananda?
Radhantha?
why then Radhanatha is coming to Europe Russia etc for preaching if you say he ordered to kill Sulocana and this murder happened?
including the murder of Sulochana. Sorry, Radhanath was the henchman for Kirtanananda, and he told me personally that Kirtanananda is the best devotee he knows,
wait? you told to Radhanatha personally?
DID he personally told you Sulocana is good person?
who wanted to kill Sulocana?
I don't understand!
oh wait. you mean Radhanatha glorified Kirtanananda... but did he glorified Sulocana?
just months before the murder of Sulochana.
Anyway, the New Vrndavana story has been in all the various news media all over the USA. I was interviewed for Rolling Stone Magazine, CBS news television, and was quoted in many other medias in 1986. Then the book "Monkey On A Stick" came out.
wait. I know monkey on a stick is considered a not authentic book
are you author?
PADA. I want to SEE VIDEOs - what actually happened in New Vrindavan.
i have seen only photos.
maybe there can be made some movie - about Prabhupada poisoned
about murders in new Vrindavan, since 1977?
make a movie - hire few actors who would play:
- sulocana
- radhantah swami
- kirtanananda
- all those killed victims in new vrindavan
etc...
and try all that you wrote on your site - to show in a movie...
just get a camera. so easy.
no need to make it super first class.
I just want to see this detective
And I was also interviewed recently for an Investigation Discovery TV Channel show, and so on and so forth. Thus the police,
wait. police support Radhanatha I think.
why they like him - even though he ordered to kill sulocana?
or he didn't?
he didn't mean killing?
who ordered to do it?
or noone? onlty killers wanted to?
FBI, media, public, most devotees, they already know New Vrndavana was a criminal operation. As for the hareksna.org web site, it gets anywhere from 50,000 to 2,000,000 hits a month,
and it is called a hate website and not recommended by google etc to enter...
and you refer on it - that one who enters it - he brakes down a act for privacy which never was signed in usa...
and you say - if one is in religious organization - he should n't enter it...
then it means - you are not in ISKCON?
your site is secular? non-religious?
then you are athesit or no?
no, just tell me what do you think.
why you wrote that HAre KRISHna cannot enter that site?
its linked to maybe 100 other Krishna type sites, so someone is reading it somewhere.
And we have had some good questions from readers of that site, as well as people sending us their stories as a result of that site.
do you think my story is a good one now?
after you wrote Radhanatha is sinner, and I told in temple - I can't now enter it
if I didn't read what you wrote - i would most probably easily attend ISKCON temple as usual...
becasue of your "defamation" now I am kicked out of ISKCON and almost on line for suicide
We simply cannot go to all the ISKCON temples and discuss these things there.
why don't you hide your site from online access? if it is so private that HAre Krishnas can't enter it?
really
We will be assaulted or worse. I was chased with baseball bats and was saved at the last instant by the police, who were following me, or else, I'd be dead by now.
hm... how this all strated? did you met Prabhupada personally?
are you initiated by him?
how ISKCON changed after his departure?
did it indeed was a plan to "conquer ISKCON by false gurus, illuminatis", and Sulocana was a hero?
or Sulocana is Illuminati and false guru? Who is Judah? Sulocana ?
So its a little hard for us not to go public. If we were not out there in the public, we would have been killed already.
hm?
Even Brahmananda told me, the GBC regime knows that "killing you will make a huge media story, that is the only reason you are alive today."]
who is Brahm-da?
*** I know one another site - prabhupada org uk - and I like it more than yours one. Actually you - PADA - are called bogus Krishna cult there. And I think they are right.
[PADA: Right, well that site is the run by Prahlad das / Mukunda das UK,
who is he? did you met him ever personally?
can you make it all with photos? and with biography/ otherwise - unclear
and they are currently promoting Bhakta das, who is huge cheer leader for the worship of GBC gurus like Trivrikrama swami, Radhanath swami etc. So these people are still tethered to the GBC's gurus and Radhanath's program. So yes, these folks have said all along -- anyone who does not worship their debauchee gurus are "a cult." Sulochana said
is Sulocana a better cult? to call some priest an asura?
even if Kirtan-da was impersonalist. then what?
about these folks, that is how they try to get us people assassinated,
they try to kill you? really?
wait. but maybe you take all this too close to heart?
i talked to Avadhut Maharaja (SCSMath).
I told him about what you wrote here. That "Radhanatha is murder-consp..." etc ...
he told - "what if I would say that Indubhushan is psycho? what if i 'ld say that indubhushan is to be killed"?
Indubhushan is me - an i who am writing this all.
but I don't have anything against Avadhut Maharaj.
in my own personal oppinion he is much better than Radhanatha Swami
at least becasue i see from Internet - noone was ever killed in SCSMath,
though in ISKCON - there were victims...
i am interested in your site for a simple reason.
i was alwasy thinking that ideal religion is - non-violence. ahimsa. like buddhism.
"do not kill" - what Bible says.,
I met one man - in a bus. he said that he went out of prison for stealing.
and he said - "give me money, charity. I stolen, was imprisoned,
now i am out - i will not steal. but i need money to get job etc".
I told him - "did you go to church (I thought hare Krishna)?"
he said - yes
I said - "you know there is some practicve like Vipassana etc - people even if they go to prison -
they never go to prison again after getting out of it..."
he said - "I know"
i told - "to know - is not enough. you should also practice it!"
and another man also was one in a bus. he said that he was a killer.
and for killing a man he was imprisoned.
bus slowly became almost empty.
but i came up to him (actually I wanted to preach to some prisoners, so he looked like a good person for it), and asked: "are you out of jail now for a crime?"
he said: "yes, i killed a man"
I asked: "well... I jsut don't understand one thing - I read one site on internet (PADA),
and they say - one saint is criminal - he hired killers to kill a devotee in his own organization, ISKCON"...
killer answered: "ah, Internet!... who cares for internet! they write all nonsense"...
I left the bus.
my feeling after this: this killer doesn't believe that saint can hire a killer.
and it looks like ISKCON also thinks like that - they don't believe a saint Radhanatha could have ordered a murder of Sulocana.
calling us bogus etc. So this GBC / Bhakta das cult has wanted to demonize me and Sulochana
wait. then why sulocana demonized Kirtan-da?
why your site demonize Radh-nath etc.
you have a long webpaghe - blacklist index...
this kind of pages are ... usually found in KGB/USSR (atheistic, sectologists - Dvorkin etc, who wanted to ban Gita) websites who criticize Church,
ISKCON and thus conclude: ISKCON in bogus cult! Don't let Prabhupada come into USSR! jail all people who are hare krishna in ISKCON in USSR! Put them to psychiatric hospitals..
to have us killed all along, and they are still at it. No surprises here!
yiou think you are on a right path?
And the prabhupada org folks are now, as we speak, also citing Hari Sauri as their authority, and he was writing that me and Sulochana are bogus in 1986,
is there a good explaination why Sulocana was killed on Nrisimha-appearance day in 1986?
same year Chernobyl atom/nuclear-power electric station was destroyed in Ukraine by the way
which Sulochana said was "painting a bull's eye on our backs" -- and Sulochana was murdered as a result.
are you friend of Sulocana? you feel he should n't have been killed even though he carried a gun in New Vrindavan and called Kirt-da - asura?
I think Sulocana accepted Pravriti path - without purification...
I though about this a long time...
one can get initionation. but this changes nothing...
say... one was born and parents baptised him - made him chrisitan...
so what? there are some communists who are baptised...
even Duluman - candidate of theology - ... christian - became one of (it was wrote in ad - : "atheist number one in ukraine, Duluman") big atheists in Ukraine...
so maybe you - pada, sulocana, and so on -
you simply maybe got initiated, but you ...
you didn't purify yourselves...
my Gurudev said - "my religion is to find faults within myselves"...
Asuras are inside us - not outside...
Fight against kamsa and other asuras - not outside - but inside heart, soul, consciosuness, mind...
and don't think anythone outside - is a demon or asura.
it is dangerous.
better think - all around is a myth, a fairy tale...
and don't spoil it with criticism...
ISKCON looked like good fairy tale.
then I read sites like yours - it became a little nightmare-ish...
So these prabhupada org people are directly promoting the regime which has the Vaishnavas -- like Sulochana -- assassinated.
yes? Sulocana indeed is Vaishnava?
it is said... kill Vaishnava - is a great sin...
that's why I wantd to defend Sulocana also...
but I can't say he is 100% right...
he crossed a line.
a line - he carried a gun. he must not have done it...
he crosse a line - he called a priest - a demon, asura.
that's why he was killed as I can see...
though... I tend to protect those who are killed and not a killer.
though not easy to do in Hare Krishna...
Hiranya-kashipu was killed...
and we have to take white, good side - side of Narasimha...
but naraimha was a "killer",,, but not ordinary.
as God, Vishnu killed satan...
by the way... once I heard idea in ISKCON:
"Sulocana was killed on Naraismha day? then see - Narasimha ruled and solved the problem right... then Sulocana was asura! don't criticise Radhanatha! or I'll beat you"... like that
I was saved from their cult by -- the police and the FBI.
and if police and fbi are non-devotees and atheists - maybe they are wrong?
Hari Sauri is also implicated in promoting Bhavananda and so on, so these prabhupada org folks are finally admitting they are with the Hari Sauri / Andy Warhol pada program,
oh, so prabhupada org uk are PADA supporters? interesting! they call you are a cult!
and we think that's good news really, they are now gradually being honest. The prabhupada.org web site folks are in sum, promoting the biggest cheer leaders of the Radhanath / Kirtanananda guru program, and most of us think this regime helped orchestrate getting Sulochana killed etc.
sorry/ Prabhupada org uk wanted to kill Sulocana?
but wait? don't you mean - then thus "by deafult" we - new people in ISKCON -
must support killers of Sulocana?
no, I can accept krishna if He killed Kamsa...
but it was in USa - in 80-es...
one DASA killed another DASA...
what the hell is it???
They are openly citing the henchmen for the child molester's guru program as their spokesmen, leaders and authorities.
Sorry, we are not with that program.
They also said that the molested children of ISKCON need to be killed and chopped up,
*** Well, it may also mean that Prabhupada WAS poisoned. Well. So what can we do about it?
Do you really think that this CandraSwami was cooperating with some disciples of Prabhupada to give thim poison?
yes - it is on your site -
*** But don't you think that ... all this criticism you wrote on your site - saying that some Swamis are bad - don't you think that by this - you are destroying your faith in Prabhupada?
*** I tell you why I think like this, and why I feel this site is more kind of atheistic site, than devotional.
I'll prove you. So, I was on some dispute between atheists and religious people. There one ATHEISTIC-priest said - "Someone like you should be killed."
i see, so you are not to be kicked out... hm...
and Sulocana supported this act against Kirt-da?
who you mean - us?
no. why it is so bad?
don't you think you are criticising too much, still???
that Tirtha killer wanted to also kill you? you was in new Vrindavan? you know many people there?
why this happened all in New Vrindavan? is there any link between people who poisoned Prabhupada and killed Sulocana and other people , DASas in New Vrindavan?
you know, one "krishna-ite" in Tomsk (where Gita Ban case was) or around there killed a russain orthodox church priest...
I can understand that in new Vrindavan was like this...
but a preist was not allowed to be killed.
though other gurus were killed... why?
yes. I think - it is better to move slowly towards Krishna, then hurry towards Him like a madman, and then end up ... without Krishna...
how do we say - "drive slower - you'll get further"
though... Aindra said - "yes. we progress is to be gradual. but don't make it so gradual that you wait another lifetime for Hare Krishna perfection. Do it in one lifetime! don't let anyone say it is impossible"
Lord Caitanya guaranteed - GO BACK HOME TO GODHEAD IN THIS ONE LIFETIME!
yes. it is dangerous to be a priest... atheists want to kill God and priests who support God... =-(
So there was a plot to kill me, and Krishna did not allow that. So yes, that means I now have more faith in Krishna than ever.
do you want to know what I felt immewdiately after Duluaman said : "someone like you must be killed"? i cahnted Hare krishna a lot... actually... that same winter - it was autumn-winter - was a big snow-fall... around meter high! maybe it was a good Hare Krishna...
i was really afraid... however. it was all right. Duluman was died... I understand why Hamsaduta was afraid... Though... I don't understand why he defended with weapons...
i just chant Hare Krishna - it is best defence... Shastra, astra...
wow!
wait... then if ... you mean it is ok to be beaten up by devotees? it is krishna's mercy? Sulocana was killed - it is Krishna's mercy?
yes, bad
*** After 1952 or so - he wanted to become secular philosopher. So USSR wanted him to throw away his theology degree. So he applied to philosophy department, and there he became atheist and communist. Though he was not allowed to apply there as theologist, - he applied - but for that he asked some few thousands other priest and religious men - to go away from religion / Russian church / etc. So in this case I - yes, I see what books he wrote and what he did - he is not a devotee, not a religious or spiritual man at all. He is atheist.
Though. I was talking to him personally. He told me year ago that he is candidate of theology, that his degree can't be taken away/removed... But the next moment he said immediately - when I asked "do you believe in God?" - Duluamn said - "no!" So it was interesting thing - how an a person can be a "candidate of theology" and "atheist number one" (in Ukraine or anywhere else).
? who? GBC are atheists?
it is a sensitive question. and I think what you publish on PADA is very sensitive. I think it is better if you write less in quantity, but more in quality...
I can understand from that dispute that to criticise devotees is atheistic tendency...
that's not good..
you mean all other murders in New Vrindavan were not as secret as Sulocana's murder?
what about Sulocana carrying gun? yes, hamsaduta also got guns, but he is alive. right? so, what was intention of Sulocana? why he got guns?
So, I prepared some papers before going to that dispute - "is there a God?". I read something about who was this Lenin, and why he was atheist. I found out that he asked to "kill as many priests as possible." It was some paper which Lenin wrote to communists and other leaders of USSR - to kill all priests in USSR. So this was an order of Lenin - to kill priests as many as possible.
So I thought - "well, it will be a test - who is this person, Duluman. Will he be on a side of Lenin, or side of religion, priests". Conclusion of this story was - I understood he was on side of Lenin, and side of Anti-Krishnas. So now the whole story.
I came to a place (Technical Institute) where dispute took place. So immediately when I saw Duluman I was feeling some contradictive feelings... "I this that man? Is he atheistic priest?"... So I thought for a while - "should I talk to him personally or no", but decided - that probably there will be no opportunity like this in life or in coming many years - so I decoded to talk to him as straight as possible - to know what is inside his consciousness.
So. I came close to him. He gave me his hand - to shake his hand. So, we shook hands, and he said - "Good evening". Hm. very strange - I thought - why he gave me his hand? Any way, I also greeted him. And I asked immediately - "Are you Duluman?" He answered - "yes, don't you know me?"
I immediately felt something strange in his manner of speech, and in his words. I saw that he was an old man - actually he was born in some 1928 - see here -
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Дулуман,_Евграф_Каленьевич (you can translate from russian if you want).
yes. then i suggest that on PADA website - if you believe you are right - you add a section with Prabhuapda books. All of them are online. And make them available on your site. That is more important then to think all the time who is faulty of ISKCON in what. Only Prabhupada is ideal right - within ISKCON. at least. he is Shaktyavesha-avatara of Lord Nityananda... Others teach from Him... So it is definite that they may be wrong in some cases, may speculate, be fanatics, sentimentalists etc...
yes, I just feel some people withink ISKCON till 1977 - before Prabhupada's disappearance - were devotees. Then they lost guru... All this happened... Some DASas became crazy, others also... They mixed up and it was a crash! They killed, beated each other... thought some side was at fault... but it looks Chandraswami was faulty, not devotees in poison... though. why they got medicine for Prabhupada from Chandraswami I'm not sure...
well it is not so easy... Krishna killed asuras. Vishnu killed asuras, demons, Satan. Devil was killed by God Vishnu many times. ok. it doesn't mean He is a sinner (God). it doesn't mean religion is a sin...
This Duluman said that "atheism is holy"...
yes... I mean... we can't say that killing is good... though Krishna killed demons... He killed Kamsa...
Then is it good or bad?
I was asked to read HEGEL's WHO THINKS ABSTRACTLY
THERE HEGEL WRITES -
MAN IS KILLED - IS IT NOT NICE?
BUT SOME OLD WOMAN SAYS - HEY! HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT A KILLER IS GOOD MAN? IS IT NOT SO THAT MURDER IS ALWAYS A SIN AND CAN'T BE NICE?
HEGEL SAYS - THIS PERSON THINKS ABSTRACTLY...
SO... WHAT I WANT TO SAY. Hegel (by the way he wrote on Bhagavad-Gita)...
I understood from that that if God kills - then well, not so bad. We shouldn't think that Hiranyakashipu is good because he was a victim of murder...
But Sulocana was killed on day when Narasimha killed Hiranyakashipu...
is it possible that it was just consipiracy? to look that killers of Sulocana were "army of Narasimha"?
and what I want to say...
say, in Kiev Rus, some 1000 years ago, Vladimir was a man who introduced Christianity into Kiev Rus, Russia, Ukraine etc... some 1000 years ago. Countries names were different...
people though say - that he also killed some pagans...
so was New Vrindavana like that?
The leaders gurus of NV just though that in name of Prabhupada it is all right to kill "pagans" etc?
at least for christians, Vladimir is Holy (who baptized Kievan Rus - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_the_Great )
this letter was from me. You published it online - ok.
Some people say that being "public" now is more safe than to hide anonymously. Especially if it is a question of what should be attitude towards people whom one call ... saints, and others like you - PADA - as ... sinners?
Preaching to Atheists in Russia (and analysis of PADA)
it is not Russia. we were part of it - USSR. now we are independent.
just if you don't know geography and history of Ukraine.
Hare Krishna
From: Ivan Donets (Kiev, Ukraine). Sri Caitanya Saraswat math. Initiated as Indubhushan das by Bhakti Sundar Govinda Dev Goswami Maharaj, in 2007 September, Saint Peterburgh, Lakhta.
To: angel108b@yahoo.com,
I don't know what kind of "angel" are you, but I have to tell you that I am not at all happy with your website - http://www.harekrsna.org/ I'll tell you why I tell you this.
*****
FIRST. Do you have BIOGRAPHY page?
Who are you? you are initiated?
who is your guru?
what is now your practice and position within ISKCON?
first - know person - then - decide - to learn from him or not...
Tell first - are sure that you are not offending Maharajas, Gurus or even ... saints, by calling them sinners on PADA?
I must warn, because...
I see that Duluman - who was candidate of theology - got deep into criticism against Church, that agaisnt all religion - he ended up saying - "there is no Krishna, no Balarama, Nityananda, no Caitanya, no soul, after death there is nothing, I don't want to heaven, religion is a sin, atheism is holy etc etc... If you belive in God then you must go to psychiatric hospital. Someone like you must be killed etc etc"...
he told like this. So just to protect myself from all kinds of dangers - I got out from being "anonymous".
***
I'm relatively new person in ISKCON, - several years I know ISKCON and attend some programs there. But some man from India told me
his name is Sanjay Rajhans
: "I know ISKCON very well, see who is Harikesha"... So I did what he asked and found your website
but first - Book by Dvorkin - "sectology"...
Now I know Dvorkin is "atheistic priest", not must better than Duluman. Because he wanted to Ban Bhagavad Gita as it is in Tomsk-Russia.
and some similar sites.
yes, there are some other like yours. But your claim to be protecting Prabhupada. and in name of Prabhupada - you offend some of his disciples. maybe that is not offense...
But I want to know for sure.
Becasue I thought that you are authority. Instead.
When I told something from your site against Radhanatha Swami
("he was pushing like crazy to kill Sulocana") - ISKCON kicked me out...
You say that ISKCON also kicked you out. Then why?
Then why you publish something which make others, - both you and new people in hare Krishna -
to be kicked out?
Or i don't know something?
But result of this was not very good. When I told in ISKCON that Radhanatha Swami is "murder conspirator" etc -
yes, you have 10-pages document from a court against "Rot-not"
but I have seen - the person who criticised him -
later began to worship him...
so does it mean that words against Radhanatha were wrong?
does it mean that more probably - he is saint
or at least not sinner...?
becasue he preched in many political and business places!
and also...
i wanted to make some thing like program which can "semi-automatically convert texts like Vedas into movies - speech synthesys + 3d-animation using some game engine like Unity3d"...
And heard from others that Radhanatha Swami liked it
he said - "it is a future of preching"...
so why you are agasint him?
I would have probably worked and earned some money now if I didn't read your criticism agasint ISKCON,
and this probably wouldmn't have let me to suicidal thoughts or as result of insuccessful life - criticism agasint ISKCON leaders (as more responsible for all what happen)...
just what you wrote on your site - they felt very unhappy and asked me never to come to ISKCON again.
yes, I want to come again. But because of you, i even unintentionally called one man "hiranyakashipu"...
I asked him for forgiveness. he didn't.
So probably you are wrong that you made this website.
[PADA: Radhanath swami had been a big leader in the New Vrndavana (Kirtanananda) program
wait. isn't Kirtanananda was imprisoned for killed Sulocana?
wasn't Kirtan-ananada - the one who wanted to kill Sulocana?
did he even wanted to?
maybe they - both - Kirtan-da, and Radh-nath - they didn't want to kill anyone?
But they said jokingly - "some people in New Vrindavan are distructing us from preaching.
they must be silent. Do not criticise. They should not be like asuras or atheists"...
though... it seems that Kirtan-ananada also though about Sulocana as a... "snake"???
devotee is not disturbed when snake is killed?
human is not a snake...
why sulocana was considered a snake?
... i know that... Sulocana was somewhere in New Vrindavan
running with a gun... did he really wanted to kill some one?
did he really ... did Sulocana really liked that some person crashed head of Kirtan-da?
is Sulocana Ahura-Mazda?
I 've read that Sulocana is a name of some relative of Ravana or something...
then why Prabhupada initiated him?
***********
which had many crimes going on,
who is responsible for that?
Kirtanananda?
Radhantha?
why then Radhanatha is coming to Europe Russia etc for preaching if you say he ordered to kill Sulocana and this murder happened?
including the murder of Sulochana. Sorry, Radhanath was the henchman for Kirtanananda, and he told me personally that Kirtanananda is the best devotee he knows,
wait? you told to Radhanatha personally?
DID he personally told you Sulocana is good person?
who wanted to kill Sulocana?
I don't understand!
oh wait. you mean Radhanatha glorified Kirtanananda... but did he glorified Sulocana?
just months before the murder of Sulochana.
Anyway, the New Vrndavana story has been in all the various news media all over the USA. I was interviewed for Rolling Stone Magazine, CBS news television, and was quoted in many other medias in 1986. Then the book "Monkey On A Stick" came out.
wait. I know monkey on a stick is considered a not authentic book
are you author?
PADA. I want to SEE VIDEOs - what actually happened in New Vrindavan.
i have seen only photos.
maybe there can be made some movie - about Prabhupada poisoned
about murders in new Vrindavan, since 1977?
make a movie - hire few actors who would play:
- sulocana
- radhantah swami
- kirtanananda
- all those killed victims in new vrindavan
etc...
and try all that you wrote on your site - to show in a movie...
just get a camera. so easy.
no need to make it super first class.
I just want to see this detective
And I was also interviewed recently for an Investigation Discovery TV Channel show, and so on and so forth. Thus the police,
wait. police support Radhanatha I think.
why they like him - even though he ordered to kill sulocana?
or he didn't?
he didn't mean killing?
who ordered to do it?
or noone? onlty killers wanted to?
FBI, media, public, most devotees, they already know New Vrndavana was a criminal operation. As for the hareksna.org web site, it gets anywhere from 50,000 to 2,000,000 hits a month,
and it is called a hate website and not recommended by google etc to enter...
and you refer on it - that one who enters it - he brakes down a act for privacy which never was signed in usa...
and you say - if one is in religious organization - he should n't enter it...
then it means - you are not in ISKCON?
your site is secular? non-religious?
then you are athesit or no?
no, just tell me what do you think.
why you wrote that HAre KRISHna cannot enter that site?
its linked to maybe 100 other Krishna type sites, so someone is reading it somewhere.
And we have had some good questions from readers of that site, as well as people sending us their stories as a result of that site.
do you think my story is a good one now?
after you wrote Radhanatha is sinner, and I told in temple - I can't now enter it
if I didn't read what you wrote - i would most probably easily attend ISKCON temple as usual...
becasue of your "defamation" now I am kicked out of ISKCON and almost on line for suicide
We simply cannot go to all the ISKCON temples and discuss these things there.
why don't you hide your site from online access? if it is so private that HAre Krishnas can't enter it?
really
We will be assaulted or worse. I was chased with baseball bats and was saved at the last instant by the police, who were following me, or else, I'd be dead by now.
hm... how this all strated? did you met Prabhupada personally?
are you initiated by him?
how ISKCON changed after his departure?
did it indeed was a plan to "conquer ISKCON by false gurus, illuminatis", and Sulocana was a hero?
or Sulocana is Illuminati and false guru? Who is Judah? Sulocana ?
So its a little hard for us not to go public. If we were not out there in the public, we would have been killed already.
hm?
Even Brahmananda told me, the GBC regime knows that "killing you will make a huge media story, that is the only reason you are alive today."]
who is Brahm-da?
*** I know one another site - prabhupada org uk - and I like it more than yours one. Actually you - PADA - are called bogus Krishna cult there. And I think they are right.
[PADA: Right, well that site is the run by Prahlad das / Mukunda das UK,
who is he? did you met him ever personally?
can you make it all with photos? and with biography/ otherwise - unclear
and they are currently promoting Bhakta das, who is huge cheer leader for the worship of GBC gurus like Trivrikrama swami, Radhanath swami etc. So these people are still tethered to the GBC's gurus and Radhanath's program. So yes, these folks have said all along -- anyone who does not worship their debauchee gurus are "a cult." Sulochana said
is Sulocana a better cult? to call some priest an asura?
even if Kirtan-da was impersonalist. then what?
about these folks, that is how they try to get us people assassinated,
they try to kill you? really?
wait. but maybe you take all this too close to heart?
i talked to Avadhut Maharaja (SCSMath).
I told him about what you wrote here. That "Radhanatha is murder-consp..." etc ...
he told - "what if I would say that Indubhushan is psycho? what if i 'ld say that indubhushan is to be killed"?
Indubhushan is me - an i who am writing this all.
but I don't have anything against Avadhut Maharaj.
in my own personal oppinion he is much better than Radhanatha Swami
at least becasue i see from Internet - noone was ever killed in SCSMath,
though in ISKCON - there were victims...
i am interested in your site for a simple reason.
i was alwasy thinking that ideal religion is - non-violence. ahimsa. like buddhism.
"do not kill" - what Bible says.,
I met one man - in a bus. he said that he went out of prison for stealing.
and he said - "give me money, charity. I stolen, was imprisoned,
now i am out - i will not steal. but i need money to get job etc".
I told him - "did you go to church (I thought hare Krishna)?"
he said - yes
I said - "you know there is some practicve like Vipassana etc - people even if they go to prison -
they never go to prison again after getting out of it..."
he said - "I know"
i told - "to know - is not enough. you should also practice it!"
and another man also was one in a bus. he said that he was a killer.
and for killing a man he was imprisoned.
bus slowly became almost empty.
but i came up to him (actually I wanted to preach to some prisoners, so he looked like a good person for it), and asked: "are you out of jail now for a crime?"
he said: "yes, i killed a man"
I asked: "well... I jsut don't understand one thing - I read one site on internet (PADA),
and they say - one saint is criminal - he hired killers to kill a devotee in his own organization, ISKCON"...
killer answered: "ah, Internet!... who cares for internet! they write all nonsense"...
I left the bus.
my feeling after this: this killer doesn't believe that saint can hire a killer.
and it looks like ISKCON also thinks like that - they don't believe a saint Radhanatha could have ordered a murder of Sulocana.
calling us bogus etc. So this GBC / Bhakta das cult has wanted to demonize me and Sulochana
wait. then why sulocana demonized Kirtan-da?
why your site demonize Radh-nath etc.
you have a long webpaghe - blacklist index...
this kind of pages are ... usually found in KGB/USSR (atheistic, sectologists - Dvorkin etc, who wanted to ban Gita) websites who criticize Church,
ISKCON and thus conclude: ISKCON in bogus cult! Don't let Prabhupada come into USSR! jail all people who are hare krishna in ISKCON in USSR! Put them to psychiatric hospitals..
to have us killed all along, and they are still at it. No surprises here!
yiou think you are on a right path?
And the prabhupada org folks are now, as we speak, also citing Hari Sauri as their authority, and he was writing that me and Sulochana are bogus in 1986,
is there a good explaination why Sulocana was killed on Nrisimha-appearance day in 1986?
same year Chernobyl atom/nuclear-power electric station was destroyed in Ukraine by the way
which Sulochana said was "painting a bull's eye on our backs" -- and Sulochana was murdered as a result.
are you friend of Sulocana? you feel he should n't have been killed even though he carried a gun in New Vrindavan and called Kirt-da - asura?
I think Sulocana accepted Pravriti path - without purification...
I though about this a long time...
one can get initionation. but this changes nothing...
say... one was born and parents baptised him - made him chrisitan...
so what? there are some communists who are baptised...
even Duluman - candidate of theology - ... christian - became one of (it was wrote in ad - : "atheist number one in ukraine, Duluman") big atheists in Ukraine...
so maybe you - pada, sulocana, and so on -
you simply maybe got initiated, but you ...
you didn't purify yourselves...
my Gurudev said - "my religion is to find faults within myselves"...
Asuras are inside us - not outside...
Fight against kamsa and other asuras - not outside - but inside heart, soul, consciosuness, mind...
and don't think anythone outside - is a demon or asura.
it is dangerous.
better think - all around is a myth, a fairy tale...
and don't spoil it with criticism...
ISKCON looked like good fairy tale.
then I read sites like yours - it became a little nightmare-ish...
So these prabhupada org people are directly promoting the regime which has the Vaishnavas -- like Sulochana -- assassinated.
yes? Sulocana indeed is Vaishnava?
it is said... kill Vaishnava - is a great sin...
that's why I wantd to defend Sulocana also...
but I can't say he is 100% right...
he crossed a line.
a line - he carried a gun. he must not have done it...
he crosse a line - he called a priest - a demon, asura.
that's why he was killed as I can see...
though... I tend to protect those who are killed and not a killer.
though not easy to do in Hare Krishna...
Hiranya-kashipu was killed...
and we have to take white, good side - side of Narasimha...
but naraimha was a "killer",,, but not ordinary.
as God, Vishnu killed satan...
by the way... once I heard idea in ISKCON:
"Sulocana was killed on Naraismha day? then see - Narasimha ruled and solved the problem right... then Sulocana was asura! don't criticise Radhanatha! or I'll beat you"... like that
I was saved from their cult by -- the police and the FBI.
and if police and fbi are non-devotees and atheists - maybe they are wrong?
Hari Sauri is also implicated in promoting Bhavananda and so on, so these prabhupada org folks are finally admitting they are with the Hari Sauri / Andy Warhol pada program,
oh, so prabhupada org uk are PADA supporters? interesting! they call you are a cult!
and we think that's good news really, they are now gradually being honest. The prabhupada.org web site folks are in sum, promoting the biggest cheer leaders of the Radhanath / Kirtanananda guru program, and most of us think this regime helped orchestrate getting Sulochana killed etc.
sorry/ Prabhupada org uk wanted to kill Sulocana?
but wait? don't you mean - then thus "by deafult" we - new people in ISKCON -
must support killers of Sulocana?
no, I can accept krishna if He killed Kamsa...
but it was in USa - in 80-es...
one DASA killed another DASA...
what the hell is it???
They are openly citing the henchmen for the child molester's guru program as their spokesmen, leaders and authorities.
Sorry, we are not with that program.
They also said that the molested children of ISKCON need to be killed and chopped up,
really? they hate DASAS?
so they could save their messiah Radhanath.
I seen with own eyes - thousand or more people on Bhakti-sangama - they were clapping while Radhantha was preaching... I also participated...
I even felt - it is like a meditation - to meditate on Radhanatha...
why you feel he is so bad?
They are simply big defenders of the GBC's bogus guru regime and that's all.
do you think that Bhakti-Vijnana - who is leader of Russian ISKCON - then he is also bogus? are you in clear mind?
Some of the ex-children told me the prabhupada org writer Sanat has simply infuriated the ex-children by his saying all these children have to die (to protect their molester regime).
that's why New Vrindavan children were killed? Prabhupada org uk killed them?
So that is the problem, these folks wanted the ex-children victims to suffer and the child victimizing regime leaders to be worshiped as gurus, and they still do to this day. That has been the whole problem all along.
At the same time, that web site promotes bogus and illusioned Illuminati DVDs made by beef eaters and animal hunters.
prabhupad org uk eat beef?
and you pada - do you eat beef? you follow all 4 regulative principles strictly? chant 16 rounds of Hare krishna every day? do you preach anywhere except on harekrsna.org?
I can't even call this preaching - harekrsna.org...
They are trying to encourage the Krishna devotees listen to their beef eating Illuminati gurus on their DVDs,
i like Matrix move more. btter say we are in Maya. And Radhanatha or Kirtan-da is Morpheus. and we are neo-s. let's get out of maya! matrix... and you say that ISKCON is like Matrix - get out of it? or what is your point?
and we are not surprised at all that almost none of the Krishna devotees are attracted to their program. Some of the speakers the prabhupada org folks advertised on their Illuminati site are promoting animal hunting, so they are trying to mix up Krishna -- with animal hunting with guns etc. That is not what Krishna wants, for people to shoot animals with guns?
ok you mean to say Russian, Ukrainain etc ISKCON who allow Radhanatha in their temples - they are also thus support killing animals and people like Sulocana? it is the hell if you mean this actaully!
This is not ever going to be gaining momentum.
None of the bona fide Krishna devotees are going to accept these people -- because most Krishna devotees do not even have a gun,
This is not ever going to be gaining momentum.
None of the bona fide Krishna devotees are going to accept these people -- because most Krishna devotees do not even have a gun,
I read this "Journey home" of Radhanatha. He hold a gun once. in that book there is a story...
he said that Jews wanted to kill him or something... did he think that Sulocna was like them (Jews)?
what to speak of getting guns for the purpose of shooting innocent animals etc.,
wait and shooting innocent people DASAs?
let me tell you one small story...
Just now in Ukraine - there is some problem.
In main square in Kiev some people were killed.
i felt a little responsible for that...
becasue I went to that Atheist Duluman and told him - "here is Krishna. You say religion is a sin, that there is no Krishna. is your Lenin who ordered to kill priests is better?"
Duluman told me: "someone like you must be killed"...
See. and now in Ukraine on maidan some 100 people were killed.
They are called "heavenly hundred".
they defended Ukraine who is free from Lenin, dictatorship etc...
just before that murder - one girl said in video "I am Ukrainian" -
"we want you to know why we are here ... maybe police wiull murder us one after another when it will be dark here"...
***
I am a Ukrainian, the native of Kiev. And now I am on Maidan, on the central part of my city. I want you to know why thousands of people all over my country are on the streets. There is only one reason: We want to be free from a dictatorship.
We want to be free from the politicians who work only for themselves, who are ready to shoot, to beat, to injure people, just for saving their money, just for saving their houses, just to saving their power.
I want these people who are here, who have dignity, who are brave, I want them to lead a normal life. We are civilized people, but our government are barbarians. That's not a soviet union. We want our courts not to be corrupted. We want to be free.
I know that maybe tomorrow we'll have no phone, no internet connection, and we will be alone here. And maybe police men will murder us, one after another, when it will be dark here.
That's why I ask you now to help us. We have this freedom inside our hearts. We have this freedom in our minds. And now I ask you to build this freedom in our country.
You can help us only by telling this story to your friends, only by sharing this video. Please share, share it. Speak to your friends, speak to your family, speak to your government, and show that you support us.
We want to be free from the politicians who work only for themselves, who are ready to shoot, to beat, to injure people, just for saving their money, just for saving their houses, just to saving their power.
I want these people who are here, who have dignity, who are brave, I want them to lead a normal life. We are civilized people, but our government are barbarians. That's not a soviet union. We want our courts not to be corrupted. We want to be free.
I know that maybe tomorrow we'll have no phone, no internet connection, and we will be alone here. And maybe police men will murder us, one after another, when it will be dark here.
That's why I ask you now to help us. We have this freedom inside our hearts. We have this freedom in our minds. And now I ask you to build this freedom in our country.
You can help us only by telling this story to your friends, only by sharing this video. Please share, share it. Speak to your friends, speak to your family, speak to your government, and show that you support us.
***
and after few week people were killed.
i asked Duluman: "well, you say God is a killer, religion is a sin... atheism is holy...
but Lenin ordered to kill as many priests as possible... you are also a priest - you told me -
that you are candidate of theology in the beginning... can you comment these words of Lenin?
is it true that he wanted to kill priests?"
though, Duluman thought that I thought about killing him... no, I didn't.
I just read a document that Lenin orderd to kill at least one priest of Russia, which was before USSR...
So Duluman said - "someone like you must be killed"
and see - some 500 ( I odn't know exactly) people were beaten to blood in Kiev
and some 100 people died for European Union agasint Russia etc in these days...
Even one man - from catholic university - some teacher there - he was killed...
so Duluman is responsible for that murders.
well, I defended side of Krishna...
well, let's speak about that later.
By the way, maybe New Vrindavan is like that?
innocent people were killed?
Sulocana was innocent ? why he was killed?
then why he had gun with him?
whom are the spokespersons these prabhupada org folks, whom they are promoting on their illuminati web sites. They are also telling people to avoid our web sites,
are they wrong? what is wrong in avoiding criticism of some priest like Radhanatha?
because we are saying Krishna is not in favor of getting guns to hunt animals, we also do not support Bhakta das and the GBC guru's regime so on.]
Gandhi also said that one has to follow ahimsa... but it was to extreme that Gandhi was killed.
Gandhi also said that one has to follow ahimsa... but it was to extreme that Gandhi was killed.
yes, Prabhupada probably also thus was poisoned, like Socrates. And Jesus crucified...
if Indeed someone liike Chandraswami poisoned Prabhupada...
why officila ISKOCN say that Prabhupada was not poisoned quoting him "I was not poisoned"?
prabhupada org spokesman speaks:
http://krishna1008.blogspot.com/2013/09/message-from-sanat-prahlad-mukunda.html
*** So, you on your site write that Hare Krishnas poisoned Prabhupada. But I found out that it was ChandraSwami - some tantric mayavadi "doctor" who is life sentenced somewhere in India.
prabhupada org spokesman speaks:
http://krishna1008.blogspot.com/2013/09/message-from-sanat-prahlad-mukunda.html
*** So, you on your site write that Hare Krishnas poisoned Prabhupada. But I found out that it was ChandraSwami - some tantric mayavadi "doctor" who is life sentenced somewhere in India.
yes, for killing some politician in India, poisoning etc...
see wikipedia -
I think it is he who gave poison to prabhupada...
at least for me from outside from all these- a new person -
I find him quilty.
if he is alive - find him out -
and let him say what he knows about Prabhupada poisoning etc...
So why you say Prabhupada's devotees are poisoners? It means they are not.
[PADA: No, what we said is -- that the Hare Krishna leaders (like Tamal) probably worked with other deviants to make this poisoning happen.
prabhupada said Chandraswami is mayavadi...
Why Tamal worker with Chandraswami who poisoned others? who is mayavadi?
Perhaps Chandra swami was involved, and if he was, then he was employed by the poisoner cadre.
i found only Bhakti Charu figuring there. he says: "Let me burn in eternal hell if I gave posion to Prabhupada! i didn't know it is posion! Only I could give poison to Prabhupada!"
We also have an ex-gurukuli testimony that he heard the leaders talking about poisoning, and Bhakti Caru was seen outside the room crying,
so he was crying. then we can't suspect him right?
tamal also was devotee, he can't be suspecrted right? or no?
saying that Srila Prabhupada was complaining of being poisoned, and so on. Chandra swami is not the main evidence, but its odd than his name came up.]
He is main suspect .becasue he provided medicine makhardhvaja. And makhardhvaja acted as poison. same poisoner Chandraswami killed some other people. but at that time he wasn't known as poisoner. Then Chandraswami was imprisoned for poisoning. though... i may be wrong?
but there is a fact - Chandraswami provided poison, no?
*** Well, it may also mean that Prabhupada WAS poisoned. Well. So what can we do about it?
Do you really think that this CandraSwami was cooperating with some disciples of Prabhupada to give thim poison?
[PADA: I do not know, its just strange that his name was connected to these events.]
Just read a book - someone poisoned me
yes - it is on your site -
http://www.harekrsna.org/pada/documents/poisonbook-1.htm
CHAPTER 15:
CHANDRA SWAMI CONNECTION
In India today, and even more so twenty years ago, one can find Ayurvedic physicians, herbal medicines and various drugs or poisons just about anywhere. It is part of the Hindu/Indian culture and an area very loosely regulated by the authorities. Thus, to obtain any of a number of poisons would not be very difficult. On the other hand, it is difficult to obtain high quality and pure medicines.
On October 20, 1977 Srila Prabhupada had a dream wherein he saw a Ramanuja-vaidya preparing makharadhvajamedicine, and he interpreted that Krishna had given some idea of how to be treated. The devotees had already obtained what was supposed to be makharadhvaja from Bonamali in Vrindaban, but he was not a Ramanuja kaviraja. Bonamali gave instructions that its administration be only after the weather had cooled down.
But Srila Prabhupada wanted the makharadhvaja prepared only by the Ramanuja-kaviraja, as He had seen in His dream. On the 24th of October, Smara-hari was going to South India to see the chief priest in Sri Rangam temple. He was going to purchase the medicine's ingredients himself, and then have the Ramanuja kaviraja make it while he watched. He hoped to be back to with Srila Prabhupada's medicine in one to two weeks.
There are three accounts thus far as to how the makharadhvaja was obtained from Chandra Swami: Tamal's, Adi Keshava's, and that of the Conversations Books. First, we quote from TKG's Diary:
October 23: "Gopal Krishna and Adi Keshava went to Delhi for phoning. October 24: "We received a phone call from Delhi, however. Adi Keshava Maharaj had a very prominent sadhu friend from New York who happened to be in Delhi. He had called his friend, Candidas, who knew the best kaviraja available, one of the Ramanuja sampradaya. Candidas phoned the kaviraja, who amazingly had just completed a ten-day preparation of makharadhvaja. Candidas had saved seven tolas and was going to donate them to Srila Prabhupada." October 25: "In the early evening Satadhanya Maharaj arrived with the makharadhvaja. The kaviraja had also treated Morarji Desai, and his office was filled with members of Parliament, etc. There are six kinds of makharadhvaja medicine. He had prepared siddha makharadhvaja. Seven tolas were not required. As it was being made for another, when the kaviraja heard it was needed by Srila Prabhupada, he donated it. It was made from gold, pearls, musk, mica, and other ingredients, and could be taken with milk or honey. The kaviraja had given twelve grams, enough for 24 days at two doses a day, each weighing two ratis. Both Satadhanya and Adi Keshava were very impressed, though the kaviraja was not a Ramanuji but a sakta wearing Siva tilak. Prabhupada heard all this from Satadhanya Maharaj, then said that Bhakticharu Maharaj and I would take charge of the medicine..." (TkgD.293-9)
In March 1999 this author interviewed Adi Keshava Prabhu, who was very forthcoming and informative. Oddly, he now has a PhD in Biochemistry and works in plant pathology research, being very familiar with arsenic toxicity and various testing methods. At the mention of Chandra Swami, Adi Keshava immediately muttered, "Oh, that old rat!" and variously described the "sadhu" as a wheeler dealer, a Punjabi truck driver, a slimey character, etc. Chandra Swami was a fortune teller and his offers of help to people were always very self-motivated. In November 1976 Chandra Swami had come to Adi Keshava in New York to offer help with his court case. Chandra Swami referred Adi Keshava to certain contacts and individuals who actually were of great assistance. Chandra Swami invited Adi Keshava to join him in a meeting with President-elect Jimmy Carter in January 1977, and Adi Keshava provided an oil painting of Krishna as a gift for the occasion. The meeting never occurred but Carter did receive the painting.
Chandra Swami came and went from New York, and Adi Keshava would sometimes visit him at an upper Manhattan deluxe apartment. After winning the court case in March 1977, Adi Keshava went to see Chandra Swami at a house in Delhi, and thanked him for his help. After Indira Gandhi's fall from power, a man came to the Vrindaban temple gate for Adi Keshava with a message from Gandhi's appointment secretary. Chandra Swami was somehow involved with Indira Gandhi's wanting to meet with Srila Prabhupada in Vrindaban, but Srila Prabhupada did not want to meet her. Adi Keshava went to Delhi to decline the offer, and met Chandra Swami at Gandi's secretary's office. Chandra Swami was informed of Srila Prabhupada's ill health, and Adi Keshava never saw him again.
On October 23 Adi Keshava went to Delhi to try to extend his plane ticket, but he could not and would have to fly back to New York within days. Satadhanya accompanied him to Delhi on business of his own. Adi Keshava phoned Chandra Swami's office and a "minion-psycophant" was asked for suggestions on where to find a qualified Ramanuja kaviraja who might have or could make makharadhvaja. The minion called back after apparently contacting Chandra Swami and referred Adi Keshava to a very prominent kaviraja in Delhi who was treating Morarji Desai.
Satadhanya and Adi Keshava went to the Delhi kaviraja's large clinic and described Srila Prabhupada's condition and dream, requesting makharadhvaja. The kaviraja wore Shivite tilak, but knew of Srila Prabhupada and expressed appreciation for His work and stature as a true holy man. The kaviraja had just completed making some makharadhvaja for another person, but scooped out from an apothecary-type jar the sufficient quantity for Srila Prabhupada and donated it free of charge. He said that this medicine should not ordinarily be taken by one as deteriorated in health as was Srila Prabhupada, but who was he to argue with Bhagavan in Srila Prabhupada's dream? He wrote a letter to Srila Prabhupada expressing these serious reservations and giving the instructions for its dosages, etc.
Adi Keshava left from Delhi back to the USA while Satadhanya returned to Vrindaban with the makharadhvaja. Just before his flight, Adi Keshava phoned Vrindaban and was shocked to hear from Gopal Krishna that Srila Prabhupada was taking the makharadhvaja while no one had showed Him the kaviraja's letter. Very upset, Adi Keshava left for New York.
Meanwhile, on the 25th Satadhanya arrived in Vrindaban with the makharadhvaja. In the Conversations Books, Vol. 36, pg. 73, we read:
Satadhanya: I have brought the makharadhvaja from the kaviraja in Delhi. This kaviraja, he's not Ramanuja-sampradaya, but many people say in Delhi that he's the foremost kaviraja in India. He treats the Prime Minister, Morarji Desai, and all the ministers also. So many people trusted him, and he mixed this medicine…He was mixing it for some other person, but when he heard that you were ill, he gave it to us.
Bhavananda: What kind of makharadhvaja?
Satadhanya: There's different kinds of makharadhvaja, six kinds. This is the most potent kind. This is called siddha makharadhvaja. This contains gold and pearl and musk and mica and many other ingredients…
Prabhupada: That's all right. What did he charge?
Tamal Krishna: What did he charge?
Satadhanya: Nothing. We got it for free because we got it through one influential man named Chandra Swami.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Tamal Krishna: Oh, Chandra Swami. That's that person Adi Keshava was always working with.
That same day, October 25, Srila Prabhupada took the first dose of makharadhvaja, and one dose the next day, after which He discontinued its use due to the negative effect of causing loose bowels. Thus Srila Prabhupada only took themakharadhvaja for one day.
In the summer of 1977, Bhagwat Prabhu recalled being sent by Adi Keshava to the New York airport to pick up Chandra Swami, who he thought stayed at the New York temple for some days, but which Adi Keshava denied, saying Chandra Swami had his own accomodations. Bhagwat also recalled that Chandra Swami cured Sudama Maharaj from a very serious illness with his medicines, and that Chandra Swami was a Shivite tantric and very expert in medicines and Ayurveda. Another devotee from the New York temple, Antima Prabhu, also had extensive association with Chandra Swami, but could not be located for an interview.
Lakshmi Nrsingha Prabhu, also from the New York temple, recalled that Adi Keshava and he went to see Chandra Swami at a rich lady's uptown Manhattan apartment, unsure of the date. They met with Chandra Swami for about two hours, when his mind reading abilities were displayed.
Gurudas and Giriraj spoke with Srila Prabhupada about Chandra Swami in December 1976 and January of 1977. Chandra Swami was mentioned as wanting to meet Srila Prabhupada and as going with Adi Keshava to meet the new USA President Carter. Tamal Krishna Goswami was working with Adi Keshava in New York as GBC from before July 1976 until mid February 1977, and presumably could also have met and associated with Chandra Swami, who spent much time in New York. However, Adi Keshava does not recall any meeting of Tamal with Chandra Swami. References to Chandra Swami in the following health biography are found on 12.26.76, 12.27.76, 1.8.77, 2.14.77, 4.11.77, 4.29.77, and 10.25.77.
OK, so what?
So, Chandra Swami is reportedly serving a life sentence in India's Tihar Central Jail for unspecified but numerous and serious crimes. The ISKCON Chakra website posted an internet article in December 1997:
"...so Srila Prabhupada suggested that someone go to Delhi. On October 24, the GBC sent Adi Keshava to Delhi, where he found a kaviraja preparing makharadhvaja. At the time, this kaviraja was not known to be a criminal. He had a reputation for impeccable morality and was even treating Morarji Desai, then prime minister of India."
A little history: Morarji Desai was imprisoned by Indira Gandhi after her proclamation of emergency rule for 19 months from late 1975 until March 1977, along with 150,000 other opposition politicians. Indira Gandhi held elections in March 1977 and was defeated. The jailed opponents were released and the Janata party, led by J.P. Narayan, selected Morarji Desai as the next Prime Minister on March 24, 1977. J.P. Narayan had called for massive civil disobedience in protest of Indira Gandhi's corrupt regime in June 1975, leading to his arrest with others. After five months in prison, however, J.P. Narayan was released to house arrest due to very bad health. There were stories in the Indian press in 1977 that Indira Gandhi had poisoned J.P. Narayan and others in jail. J.P. Narayan was still in a Bombay hospital in April 1977 when Giriraj and Gopal Krishna went to visit him. Srila Prabhupada noted that J.P. Narayan had the same kidney disease as He himself had. J.P. Narayan went to the USA for medical treatment, and died two years later in 1979.
Chandra Swami somehow moved as a favorite from one leader and regime to the next, apparently playing many sides simultaneously. He treated Prime Minister Morarji Desai with his expertise in Ayurvedic medicines, even though he was previously so intimate with Indira Gandhi that he could call her on the phone at any time. Later it was thought he may have been involved with the mysterious prison poisonings where "kidney disease" became a common ailment. Srila Prabhupada was purported to also have the same kind of kidney disease.
Considering his complex history of shady dealings, Chandra Swami was probably never an honest Ayurvedic physician who supposedly only went crooked after Srila Prabhupada's disappearance, as suggested by Chakra. Adi Keshava clarified that even in 1977 Chandra Swami was a crooked, slimey character. We are left to wonder if Chandra Swami was involved in the poisoning of Srila Prabhupada by supplying poison and giving instructions in its use. Considering his rap sheet today, it is not far-fetched to wonder what the Indira Gandhi/ Chandra Swami/ makharadhvaja/ Srila Prabhupada poisoning connection might be. Not only may the makharadhvaja from Chandra Swami have been "tainted," but he may have supplied poison for use against Srila Prabhupada. Enemies of Srila Prabhupada from outside of ISKCON could have hooked up with the poisoners inside ISKCON. The whole Chandra Swami connection smells bad.
Chakra's "brushing-off-as-coincidence" story is stretched even thinner when we read INDIA ABROAD's article of December 12, 1997:
CHANDRA SWAMY'S LINK TO
MURDER IS ALLEGED: (New Delhi)
Controversial religious guru Chandraswamy had links with the alleged assassins of former Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi and had planned to help them escape from India after the killing, OUTLOOK magazine quoted a key witness as saying last week.
The witness, Jayaram Ranganathan, in custody in a high-security prison in Chennai, owned the house in Bangalore in which Sivarasan and Shubha, believed to be members of the assassination squad sent by the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE), took refuge and later allegedly killed themselves on Aug. 6, 1991. Ranganathan also claimed that a Congress Party leader from Karnataka had provided Sivarasan with details of Gandhi's itinerary.
Gandhi was killed by a woman, Dhanu, believed to be a suicide bomber of the LTTE. Sivarasan, her alleged accomplice, was found dead after reportedly consuming cyanide when the police surrounded his hideout in Bangalore.
"I am the only person alive who stayed with Sivarasan and Shubha (after the assassination) and heard what they had to say about the killing," Rangarathan was quoted as saying. He alleged that DR Karthikeyan, chief of the Special Investigation Team (SIT) that probed the killing, had threatened him not to name Chandraswamy or Congress Party leaders. "From what he (Karthikeyan) told me, it was clear that he was shielding Chandraswamy and some key Congress people," he said.
Karthikeyan, who is also special director of the Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI), and Chandraswamy were not immediately available for their reaction when contacted by INDIA ABROAD.
Rangarathan said Sivarasan was told by LTTE chief Velupillai Phabhakaran that the "Jain Muni" (a reference to Chandraswamy whose real name is Nemichand Jain) would arrange his safe passage to a foreign country.
OUTLOOK had recently reported that crucial files related to the assassination were missing from the Prime Minister's Office (PMO) since the tenure of former Prime Minister PV Narasimha Rao. The magazine said the files included intercepted messages from foreign intelligence agencies, said to be addressed to Chandraswamy.
Complicity in the assassination of Rajiv Gandhi? Connections with foreign intelligence agencies? International arms deals? The editor of INDIA ABROAD also told this reporter in a telephone interview that Chandra Swami had been implicated in several Indian administrations as a go-between with bribes, shady dealings, and as a "bag-man." ISKCON COMMUNICATIONS JOURNAL, January-June 1993, contained an interview with a Mr. Vineet Narain, a man who was recently instrumental in weeding out large sections of corruption in India's government as a news reporter and investigator. Mr. Narain, an ISKCON devotee named Vishnumurti, who is now very interested in the poison issue, stated:
"I can give you an example of a person, (Chandra) Swami, you must have heard of him, he is a notorious swami, he is very good at winning people, he is a low-class person, he has no spiritual knowledge, not a fine person, he is not very sophisticated in his behaviour, yet at different stages he has cultivated hundreds of influential people in the world."
VNN posted a story on the internet about how Prithu Prabhu met someone on a plane wherein there was allegedly a revelation about a link between Adi Keshava, his father and the CIA. Adi Keshava explained that his father had retired from Defense Intelligence in 1962 and had taken up farming and engineering consultation work. His father was never in the CIA.
So what is the Chandra Swami connection, if any?
Nara Narayan Vishwakarma wrote to Rochan on 12.29.97:
"During the 'emergency' of Indira Gandhi... she imprisoned most of the important members of the opposition to the Congress party, including the Maharani of Jaipur who wrote a book which exposes Indira Gandhi's excesses. When the prisoners were released, many of them had experienced kidney failure. When I was in India in 1976, many Indian friends of ISKCON whispered about the fact that it was well known that kidney poison was being administered to Indira's political enemies (in jail). In 1977... kidney poisoning of very important men was well documented. (Also)... Vrindaban (and India) was full of enemies of Srila Prabhupada... the obtaining of the correct poison would not be at all difficult for any person close to Srila Prabhupada. At that time, kidney poison was being discussed in the (Indian) newspapers. Anyone who could read would know what to do."
It would be interesting if anyone could provide further information on this aspect of Indian history. Morarji Desai was chosen Prime Minister because Janata leader J.P. Narayan was too ill. On July 15, 1979, Morarji Desai resigned due to dissension within his party and criticism of his government as ineffectual. Desai was in his eighties and in good health, but not the charismatic leader J.P. Narayan could have been. In the January 1980 election, Indira Gandhi was re-elected in a landslide victory. Her son Sanjay died in a plane crash in 1980 and she herself was assassinated by her own military guard unit in 1984. Her older son, Rajiv Gandhi, later became prime minister and was also assassinated in 1990, a crime in which Chandra Swami was apparently involved.
An interview with Dristadyumna Prabhu revealed that he had met Chandra Swami at the New York temple in 1977, and was surprised to hear of his being in jail due to illegal activities. He remembered that Chandra Swami was "guru" for Adnan Khasnoggi, the infamous Saudi Arabian arms dealer, and that Chandra Swami spent time at Khasnoggi's palace in Spain.
In a letter to VNN on December 13, 1997, Bhagavat das wrote "...It was said in certain circles that when Indira Gandhi held Jayaprakash Narayan under house arrest she had poisons slowly administered that caused the deterioration of his kidneys and his death." The entire letter from Bhagavat is included in full under Appendix 18, as it is a valuable essay on the value of Srila Prabhupada's own words that someone had poisoned him, and this information will be presented in the next chapter.
Is there any relationship between Srila Prabhupada's poisoning and the dark and notorious Chandra Swami? Between Chandra Swami and Tamal Krishna Goswami or Jayapataka Maharaj? Many New York devotees and possibly some West Coast devotees also had been acquainted with Chandra Swami for about a year. Considering Srila Prabhupada's enemies in India, and Chandra Swami's connection with politicians and international intrigue, would going to Chandra Swami for medicine not now seem a little suspicious or out of place? There is no solid proof of any wrongdoing in the Chandra Swami connection, but it has the appearance of much more than a series of coincidences. (see also Appendix 20)
What really is the Chandra Swami connection?
*** But don't you think that ... all this criticism you wrote on your site - saying that some Swamis are bad - don't you think that by this - you are destroying your faith in Prabhupada?
[PADA: Judas betrayed Jesus, that's a famous story from the Bible. That story has not reduced faith in Jesus, that has increased faith in Jesus? I am not sure what your point is.]
never mind, i mean black-listed Swamis - http://www.harekrsna.org/gbc/black.htm
*** I tell you why I think like this, and why I feel this site is more kind of atheistic site, than devotional.
I'll prove you. So, I was on some dispute between atheists and religious people. There one ATHEISTIC-priest said - "Someone like you should be killed."
[PADA: I have had so many death threats from fanatical GBC guru followers
oh
no one bothers counting them anymore. Yes, the GBC gurus killed some of us, and that is why we had to go public. We needed help from the police, FBI and so on, and they helped us. Otherwise, we'd be dead by now.]
*** Well, I told him - "but Krishna also killed demons". I said - "ok, you are not demon, but atheist." And I know - he is not a priest - he is atheist. This man - Duluman - was a candidate of theology after studying theology in USSR in 1945-1952 / 3, but then he became one of biggest atheists in Ukraine.
[PADA: OK now you are going off the reservation, atheists do not believe anything we believe? Not sure how that is connected to what we are saying?]
I just want to say - one can be even "theologician" or candidate of tehology, but in practice - he is atheist and says that there is not Krishna, he shows him as enemy of Krishna and devotees..
just like one man in ukraine - Kernes. he had some honor from Russian Church, but said : "don't try to make Lenin monuments fall down, or I will cut off your legs and hands"... then waht kind of christian is he?
By the way, many Lenins, around 90 were fallen down in Ukraine. in some regions people "banned communist party", though not sure how real it is ... ( ban against communism/thus atheism... to fall down Lenin they consider to be fascism. They think Indians have Swastika, so they are like Hitler... i thought also... Why Nrayana Maharaja from Math also said - "Hitler was not such a bad person"... then why people also say many in ISKCON are saints, and you say they are sinners, even criminals?),
*** So, when this man died on my birthday - news said - "atheist from God - Duluman - candidate of theology, atheist number one in Ukraine, classic of Marxism-Leninism, last war-like atheist in Ukraine - died 24 /6 / 2013." So.
What does it mean to me? It means Krishna protects those who believe in Him.
He can even kill atheist - if His devotee is in danger.
[PADA: Right, that is exactly what happened to us.
i want also to say. i was not killed. i mean. i don't claim I am such a great devotee. But i think when Krishna says - "if i want to kill someone - noone can save him, and if I want to save him - noone can kill him"... then maybe if Sulocana was killed - Krishna also wanted that, no?
Jayatirtha kicked us out,
and then his head was chopped off. Kirtanananda opposed us, and he was then whacked on the head with a pipe,
put into jail, and now he is dead. Jayapataka opposed us
and his throat was slit almost in two by a devotee who was, dressed like Krishna! Later he had a stroke and almost died. He is currently a basket case. Suhotra, Gaura Govinda and similar others -- they are all dead.
Satsvarupa wrote against us and he is now a basket case in a wheel chair.
Tirtha, the man who was supposedly following my pick-up truck to eventually have me killed,
why this happened all in New Vrindavan? is there any link between people who poisoned Prabhupada and killed Sulocana and other people , DASas in New Vrindavan?
you know, one "krishna-ite" in Tomsk (where Gita Ban case was) or around there killed a russain orthodox church priest...
I can understand that in new Vrindavan was like this...
but a preist was not allowed to be killed.
though other gurus were killed... why?
is in jail for life. Many other GBC gurus are sick, dead, and so forth. Some of the other gurus like Harikesha report all kinds of health problems and he has a reported negative attitude about Krishna. Jaggadisha said he was sick for years.
how do we say - "drive slower - you'll get further"
though... Aindra said - "yes. we progress is to be gradual. but don't make it so gradual that you wait another lifetime for Hare Krishna perfection. Do it in one lifetime! don't let anyone say it is impossible"
Lord Caitanya guaranteed - GO BACK HOME TO GODHEAD IN THIS ONE LIFETIME!
Vipramukhya said every time he initiated people, he got sick -- now he is blooped. Mukunda swami says he has been sickly. Kavicandra wrote a few years ago he has no appetite and he can hardly eat. Prabhavishnu fell down and so on and so forth.
So it seems this guru program is always getting smashed in different ways, whereas our Prabhupadanuga program reports strides of success.
So there was a plot to kill me, and Krishna did not allow that. So yes, that means I now have more faith in Krishna than ever.
i was really afraid... however. it was all right. Duluman was died... I understand why Hamsaduta was afraid... Though... I don't understand why he defended with weapons...
i just chant Hare Krishna - it is best defence... Shastra, astra...
At the same time, even if they would have killed me, that also would have been Krishna's mercy,
wow!
because a devotee just goes out and fights, and he does not care if he lives or not. That's up to the higher authority.]
HM?
*** My case was similar to Hamsaduta. Hamsaduta - on your site - is in some "black list". But what he did right - is that he made one atheist die from his strong words. And that is very good. So you have no right to say anything wrong against Hamsaduta (I don't know about weapons, but simply arguing with atheist / demon is all right). Say, in my case, I know that this man - Duluman - he is ex-candidate of theology - because he is atheist now.
[PADA: OK well Hamsadutta has helped us and not helped us. What is important is that people understand the history of what happened. And the history is, Hansadutta devastated the Hare Krishna religion in the USA with his criminal enterprise in the name of Srila Prabhupada and Krishna.
And later on, so did Bhakta das with his designer drug program, getting busted by the Feds and making horrible news media, which is why we cannot help but wonder why prabhupada uk supports this man now? I did not produce one shred of this criminal publicity, I just reported what happened.]
*** After 1952 or so - he wanted to become secular philosopher. So USSR wanted him to throw away his theology degree. So he applied to philosophy department, and there he became atheist and communist. Though he was not allowed to apply there as theologist, - he applied - but for that he asked some few thousands other priest and religious men - to go away from religion / Russian church / etc. So in this case I - yes, I see what books he wrote and what he did - he is not a devotee, not a religious or spiritual man at all. He is atheist.
Though. I was talking to him personally. He told me year ago that he is candidate of theology, that his degree can't be taken away/removed... But the next moment he said immediately - when I asked "do you believe in God?" - Duluamn said - "no!" So it was interesting thing - how an a person can be a "candidate of theology" and "atheist number one" (in Ukraine or anywhere else).
[PADA: That is what people tell me all the time. The GBC says God's successors are debauchees, that must mean, they are atheists.
Who would dare insult God by saying His successors are deviants and debauchees? Atheism, yes, and I would tend to agree.]
I can understand from that dispute that to criticise devotees is atheistic tendency...
that's not good..
*** But he was (is) atheist indeed. I'll tell you why. So you can compare with people in your list - all Swamis etc etc. Duluman is atheist - because he himself lead anthi-religious Propaganda in Ukrainian Soviet Union republic. Along with some other atheists. Duluman was a leader of Atheistic Organization (or Union) in Ukraine for past some 50 years.
So for him - philosophy department, and his degree - "doctor of philosophy" - was a path from religion (candidate of theology degree) - to atheist, so-called "scientific atheism)... So he worked on cathedra of "scientific atheism" in university on philosophy department - till some 1991, when USSR dissolved. So, over 30-35 years - he worked as atheist, and his theology was a past. Actually he looked like KGB (USSR FBI, secret agent of communist party) within a church. Because he hated religion and Gods like nothing else.
I'll tell you my short talk with him - so you can understand - who is demon, and who is not. I tell you this - so you can know that all those people in http://www.harekrsna.org/gbc/black.htm - are should not be considered demons - except for a case when they PERSONALLY killed some devotees.
[PADA: OK, well the problem is that Sulochana's murder was a conspiracy.
what about Sulocana carrying gun? yes, hamsaduta also got guns, but he is alive. right? so, what was intention of Sulocana? why he got guns?
Almost all the other leaders were promoting Kirtanananda, so they are direct or indirect implicated.]
*** So my talk with this Duluman - "priest atheist" went like this. I saw an advertisement of an event. There was drawn a picture of Lenin (leader of USSR), and nearby was a label - "Duluman, candidate of theology, atheist number one in Ukraine". So I was really interested - how this is possible for a person to be a priest, and at same time some Leninist-atheist (number one atheist). I was studying on philosophy and studied religious sciences - so this was quite interesting for me.
So, I prepared some papers before going to that dispute - "is there a God?". I read something about who was this Lenin, and why he was atheist. I found out that he asked to "kill as many priests as possible." It was some paper which Lenin wrote to communists and other leaders of USSR - to kill all priests in USSR. So this was an order of Lenin - to kill priests as many as possible.
So I thought - "well, it will be a test - who is this person, Duluman. Will he be on a side of Lenin, or side of religion, priests". Conclusion of this story was - I understood he was on side of Lenin, and side of Anti-Krishnas. So now the whole story.
I came to a place (Technical Institute) where dispute took place. So immediately when I saw Duluman I was feeling some contradictive feelings... "I this that man? Is he atheistic priest?"... So I thought for a while - "should I talk to him personally or no", but decided - that probably there will be no opportunity like this in life or in coming many years - so I decoded to talk to him as straight as possible - to know what is inside his consciousness.
So. I came close to him. He gave me his hand - to shake his hand. So, we shook hands, and he said - "Good evening". Hm. very strange - I thought - why he gave me his hand? Any way, I also greeted him. And I asked immediately - "Are you Duluman?" He answered - "yes, don't you know me?"
I immediately felt something strange in his manner of speech, and in his words. I saw that he was an old man - actually he was born in some 1928 - see here -
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Дулуман,_Евграф_Каленьевич (you can translate from russian if you want).
He was already quite old. So it means he was born in Soviet Union, after 1st world war, and took part in 2nd WW. He he was among first people who created USSR, and still - he was also a person who destroyed spirituality in USSR. But lets go on. So I asked him - "so, are you .. candidate of theology?" Duluman said - "yes! I am Theology candidate! Don't you know that degrees can't be taken away?"
So, when I heard this- I couldn't believe it is possible... I read about him that he is atheist, and now he says that... he is candidadte of theology! How is that possible? But I didn't have much time to think about this all. So I continued. I asked Duluman, candidate of theology: "ok, so you are candidate of theology, priest, so you must believe in God. Do you believe in God? I am not sure because on advertisement there is drawn Lenin, and also said that you are an atheist... Maybe that is a mistake?"
But he replied: "Yes, I am atheist. I don't believe in God!" And that was kind of a shock to me! I couldn't understand this... I didn't know what to think - he just said that he is candidate of theology, theologician, priest, and just in next sentence he said that he doesn't believe in God and he is atheist...
Well, ok, now I understand - it is all because of philosophy that he became atheist. He was asked to read books of Marx and Lenin - in church - and to go against them, to find faults in them. But on the other hand - he became an atheist - marxist leninist himself. So we see the danger of reading books of atheists - this may make a devotee a atheist. If his faith is not strong anough, if he is not sincerely interested in God, serving Him. I mean - in serving Krishna.
[PADA: OK, this makes a lot of sense. He was a theist originally. He heard from the wrong sources, and then he converted to being an atheist. That has also happened in ISKCON, for example many of the ex-youth are against Krishna and Srila Prabhupada, because they heard the wrong things from the wrong sources, and so they turned away from the religion.
yes, I just feel some people withink ISKCON till 1977 - before Prabhupada's disappearance - were devotees. Then they lost guru... All this happened... Some DASas became crazy, others also... They mixed up and it was a crash! They killed, beated each other... thought some side was at fault... but it looks Chandraswami was faulty, not devotees in poison... though. why they got medicine for Prabhupada from Chandraswami I'm not sure...
I agree, this is a problem.]
*** So, Duluman said that he is atheist. Then I had another questions in my mind... I though - well - does it mean he doesn't believe only in Chrisitan God or Jesus, or in other Gods also? Doesn't he believe in Krishna? So I asked him - "ok, you don't believe in God. Which God? You don't believe only Christian God? What about other Gods? Do you believe in them?"
Duluman said - "No, I don't believe in Christian God. And don't believe in other Gods also... There are innumerable religions, and millions of Gods, but I don't believe in all them... it is like ... say some grand-mother, old woman reads something on a fence - so will she believe it... " And he started to tell about his nonsense in his mind, and on other hand - I wanted to tell him about Krishna. At this point I felt difference between me and him, between religious people and atheists. But it was just a beginning.
I said - "ok. I was in India. There I became interested in Krishna consciousness. It is a long story. But I want to say that it is not good to not believe in no Gods. Krishna says that - You can give up all kinds of religions, but never give up eternal religion - Krishna consciousness. He said - Give up all other dharmas, religions, but don't give up Krishna consciousness. He said - to become Hare Krishna, devotee of Krishna. So if you gave up other religions, - maybe you want to become Hare Krishna man? Devotee of Krishna?"
Then he answered - "hey, you are mad! You have to go to psychiatrist!"
[PADA: Happens to me every day! I am saying for example that homosexuals and deviants are not messiahs,
well it is not so easy... Krishna killed asuras. Vishnu killed asuras, demons, Satan. Devil was killed by God Vishnu many times. ok. it doesn't mean He is a sinner (God). it doesn't mean religion is a sin...
This Duluman said that "atheism is holy"...
yes... I mean... we can't say that killing is good... though Krishna killed demons... He killed Kamsa...
Then is it good or bad?
I was asked to read HEGEL's WHO THINKS ABSTRACTLY
THERE HEGEL WRITES -
MAN IS KILLED - IS IT NOT NICE?
BUT SOME OLD WOMAN SAYS - HEY! HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT A KILLER IS GOOD MAN? IS IT NOT SO THAT MURDER IS ALWAYS A SIN AND CAN'T BE NICE?
HEGEL SAYS - THIS PERSON THINKS ABSTRACTLY...
SO... WHAT I WANT TO SAY. Hegel (by the way he wrote on Bhagavad-Gita)...
I understood from that that if God kills - then well, not so bad. We shouldn't think that Hiranyakashipu is good because he was a victim of murder...
But Sulocana was killed on day when Narasimha killed Hiranyakashipu...
is it possible that it was just consipiracy? to look that killers of Sulocana were "army of Narasimha"?
and what I want to say...
say, in Kiev Rus, some 1000 years ago, Vladimir was a man who introduced Christianity into Kiev Rus, Russia, Ukraine etc... some 1000 years ago. Countries names were different...
people though say - that he also killed some pagans...
so was New Vrindavana like that?
The leaders gurus of NV just though that in name of Prabhupada it is all right to kill "pagans" etc?
at least for christians, Vladimir is Holy (who baptized Kievan Rus - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_the_Great )
What a load of drivel
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