p5, last.
from our point of view? The result is the same, repressing us.]
*** I don't know at this point about Kirtan-ananda. He said theoretically to kill a snake is all right, but Sulocana was killed. So was Radhanatha also with Kirtananada at that point? Or he was against killing?
I am not sure even about Kirtananada... If he was imprisoned... Just because he was responsible for those irresponsible lectures which lead to crimes in ISKCON? In New Vrindavan?
[PADA: RNS was at the time Kirtanananda's right hand man ...]
*** Actually this is very interesting point - when I was asked that I must be killed - that someone like you must be killed. Yes, if I am Hare Krishna, then what Duluman said sounds scary - Duluman thus meant - "someone like you - people of Hare Krishna or vaisnava faith - must be killed!" Can you imagine these kind of words from a ... candidadte of theology? From a ... priest? Well, I see that he is not a priest anymore. Candidate of theology degree for him - was just nothing (for him). He simply kicked away his theology degree and became war-like atheist. But Krishna killed this atheism. This demon.
Yes, he is kind of demon. I was scared for my life after Duluman said I should be killed. I answered strongly - as a protection from asuras etc - "well, Krishna also killed demons"... And of course at that point I meant Duluman was a demon, that Krishna killed some demons like him...
angry Krishna kills atheist Duluman
[PADA: Hee hee, oh you really got him that time!]
*** So most interesting part of all this - is that I talked about this with this demoniac "priest", demoniac "theologician" personally. It was not just some talk through internet... I even shaked hands with him! hm!
and just few hours after that (maybe after 2 hours of lecture) - he changed his mind - he hated me and wanted to kill me! And people like me!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_Communist_regimes
So ... But at least I showed Him Krishna... And I feel that Krishna worked at that point - Krishna i feel really expanded Himself at that time and manifested His energies. So when I showed Him Krishna- Duluamn became scared, scared for his life. He was scared so that Krishna can really kill him... So that is why when I said that Lenin asked to kill priests - he was scared. Because Duluman was Leninst. He died as atheist and didn't want to give up his wrong thoughts about Krishna.
[PADA: Right, well after Sulochana was killed
the FBI approached the Berkeley police and told them that I was next,
so this created fear in the GBC regime, and that saved me -- from death.]
*** So I told to Duluman - "Well, Krishna also killed demons"... However... I thought for a while and said in different way... "Well, I don't say you are a demon, just human,... but a atheist"... So, this is a lesson for you. You call some people on your site - Harekrsna org - to be demons. But I guess they are not.
[PADA: Well we say, look at the result, the temples are empty, the devotees are discouraged and downtrodden, the samkirtana movement is almost non-existing,
sankirtana grows. at least theoretically. after Lord Caitanya it grows by his plan - next thousands years
the book distribution has been almost halted, and so on. So the oppression of Lord Chaitanya's movement, we would argue, its demoniac.]
*** I can say that Duluamn can be more likely to be called a demon - or even asura - because he studied scriptures - he became theology candidate - but "negative priest", negative theologician. There are two kinds of theologies. One is positive, and one is negative. So Duluman was negative theologician - I am sure - and then he became impersonalist, agnostic, materialist, mayavadi etc. Maybe he even went to hell for that. I am sure he degraded after death.
[PADA: But even Duluman would not say illicit sex is the successors to God, like the GBC says?
no... when i told to Duluman that Krishna is God of all Gods, I also told a bit - that Krishna is like Transcendental Cupid. Duluman went mad and thought that Krishna is like... Kama.
Read Gita 16:
http://vedabase.net/bg/16/8/enasatyam — unreal; apratiṣṭham — without foundation; te — they; jagat — the cosmic manifestation; āhuḥ — say; anīśvaram — with nocontroller; aparaspara — without cause; sambhūtam — arisen; kim anyat — there is no other cause; kāma-haitukam — it is due to lust only.
no. i told them - if people were hare Krishnas, if Hare krishna was ruling dovernment etc -
then people would follow 4 regulative principles, and governemnt would stop any possibilities to brake them... they didn't like that... said : "what kind of paradise d to imagine on Earth without butcher house? no! we don't like your proposal. go away!"
I think he knows that is not acceptable in human society?
NO
So he has at least some dignity?
NO
he told that he is not "war atheist, not militant atheist, no hooligan atheist. but athical atheist"
but he told immediately to me - that someone like me must be killed... So is it dignity? no! it is unethical.
of course he could have think that I wanted to make him fear of God, or death from God... But it was just reaction to what he spoke to auditorium. He said "religion is sin, atheism is holy"... that's, that "God is killer" etc...
So I answered - is your Lenin better? that was my arguement.
i argued that Lenin did more crime than God.
And i tried to back it up by document with stamp and signature of Lenin where he ordered to kill priests etc...
So Duluman there showed his real nature... he thought that he is priest, and that his "most admired philosopher Lenin" ordered to kill him. So he didn't want to commit suicide (though he already did it when he became atheist - it i spiritual suicide. spiritual death - he was death for spiritual growth...
no, Duluman probably was KGB - communist inside church - even when he studied there...
i think some communists appointed him to go to church so that he could from inside pretend to be a believer, even get degree in theology, but then he stop cooperation with church, and became 100% atheist, but used all the fact which he learned about crimes within Church - to discredit it...
so news wrote that "Duluman was militant atheist, last militant atheist of Ukraine", died.
and he was militant. after I found he is opposed to Hare Krishna and doesn't even want to hear about it...
remember? Prabhupada said in Gita -
one calss of men - demoniac or atheistic - they do not want to hear about Krishna. But if they will hear submissively - they can change. And can become devotees..
But he didn't want to hear my arguments from Prabhupada's books.
He argued "there is no God, no Krishna, no Gods in any religion, they are not expected to be in any time" etc...
I really wonder what is his future...
I found one man - Ojasvi das - he also wrote a letter to Duluman. Few.
And Duluman called all Hare-Krishnas "parasites" etc - very bad words used.
Finally... Duluman stopped his talk with Ojasvi.
So... ojasvi spoke somthing about karma, reincarnation etc... and you know what?
read it here - in russian (use gogole translate etc) -
quote in russian first:
"
Для старого человека смерть естественна, как естественен и сон после трудового дня. А твои угрозы, что я после смерти вынужден буду перевоплотится и прожить еще одну (или много) жизнь, мне не только не испугали, а обрадовали. Нашел чем пугать! Я не прочь еще, еще и еще пройтись по кругу бытия. И чем больше, тем лучше. Жизнь - хороша; и жить - хорошо. Но тебе, оказывается, этого не понять. Во-о-о, как Кришна паскудит жизнь своих последователей! Так им/вам и надо: "Не зная броду, не суйся в воду!"
"
so he - Duluman, said to Ojasvi dasa:
"
You try to make me scared or fearful that after death I'll have to live one more (or many) lifetimes.
it is not at all scary for me! ha-ha! you try to make me afraid of this - could you have find somethinkg better to make me scared? I don't mind to live another lifetime, to go again and again in the circle of existence [DID DULUMAN MEAN SAMSARA, CYCLE OF BIRTH AND DEATH? I THINK YES].
And more lifetimes - it is better! and life is good! and (to) live - in a good-way. but you don't understand this...
"
but it seems that... he is not scared to go into lower forms of species of life...
If there are 8 400 000 species... Then he is not scared. He said it is good to reincarnate again and again. He is happy to live as many lifetimes as possible - see?
And at same time - he rejects Hare Krishna...
can you imagine?
he doesn't want to chant Hare Krishna etc - but wants to reincarnate many lifetimes - without God...
i don't know if he may go to hell but...
I think his soul is in lower planes of existence. If just a several monthes before death he said "there is no Krishna"... well, it could be some sukriti for him but which?
Kamsa was saying - "Krishna", but Krishna came to kill Kamsa...
I am not sure if Krishna indeed killed Duluman. Atheists say it is coincidence that Duluman died on my birthday (I was out of city that day by the way)...
I don't think it is a big coincidence...
Though it was a good news for me also that Krishna killed Duluman on my birthday =-)
Happy birthday to you Indubhushan =-)
]
*** Ok, so this was a long story about atheistic "theologician"... Atheistic ex-"theologician".. He died on my birthday ;-) And I am happy for that. I just came back home next day after birthday. I was not in a city. And then I came back home - opened a site - I don't know why I wanted to see that site that day. Of course - I was feeling somewhat scary after that dispute with Duluman. He said that ... someone like me must be killed!
Just like Lenin said.
I had a very strong JAPA after that dispute.
[PADA: Great! Same as me, when people debate with me, it makes me feel stronger and more convinced, especially when they present foolish arguments.]
:-)
*** When I was going home - I chanted japa - even just on a street - and didn't care that people look at me and think that I am Hare Krishna. I was even afraid for my life. I chanted maybe few hours after that dispute, and it was very strong japa.
[PADA: Krishna rewarded you for making a stand on His behalf, that's wonderful.]
*** And... maybe that is why this winter was a lot of snow... In Kiev so much snow fell down... Like in no other year. Maybe something like this was some 100 years ago or so... (when some similalar dispute was?) Well just few words I'll tell later. But Why I wrote this? Just because you are leader of this site - harekrsna org. So, you may be in similar position - that there are some HareKrishnas, disciples of Prabhupada - and they even... killed each other.
So in this case we should look at them just like simple people - and don't look at their degrees. Just like in case of Duluman. Who cares that he was candidate of theology? But at same time he was anti-church and anti-religion. Russian Orthodox Church anathemed him. Expelled him from church. Actually Russian Church took that degree of theologician back from Duluman. When he became atheist - his degree was a past and not real thing.
So we should think in same terms about Hare Krishnas. Say, if Prabhupada gave initiations to some disciples, but they ... became killers... Who cares that they were Hare Krishnas? But of course it is a hard question. Arjuna also killed. Krishna also killed asuras. Hiranyakashipu also was killed by Narasimha.
Vishnu is a killer of asuras. Ok. Does it mean we should be like that Duluamn - who hated all gods, all religions? He said - that "no gods in future are expected"...
But he was wrong. Krishna killed him on my birthday. Krishna was expected on my birthday to kill that atheist. And I am happy Krishna killed that demon Duluman ;-) So. On one hand - I also went to that Philosophy department - to know - who is atheist, and who is religious man? How to distinguish? How to know who is who - in New Vrindavan, in ISKCON - after Prabhupada etc?
But it is ok. If they are considered saints - let them be. If they are preaching - let them do so. Don't be like Duluman. angel108b@yahoo.com, you are acting like Duluman - who knows some Hare Krishna,
but at same time - is against Hare Krishnas. You shouldn't be like that. Must not be so critical. It is very bad for faith in Krishna.
[PADA: We have inspired people to quit worship of the bogus gurus
disciples of prabhupada might have a lot of experience which is not fixed in books of prabhupada or his lectures mp3s etc... then ... where to get this...
I think we have to go to ISKCON in any case - that should save us.
i don't know if you attecnd ISKCON... which city you live in (you know where I live)?
do you attend some programs - lectures, - sing there Hare Krshna, sing bhajans etc?
I am not sure you do...
and to accept Srila Prabhupada as their guru,
people in general just discourage about ISKCON, and some - also of Prabhupada and Hare Krishna.
then it is not good if you do so...
so we are having some success with that, and therefore -- being critical is required to contrast our idea with theirs?
principle is to accept Guru isn't it?
read Sridhara Maharaja's book - "Sri guru and his grace"...
]
*** Duluman was a very very big critic. He said even to me personally that Hare Krishnas worship idol Krishna, use some cow dung and cow urine etc in rituals etc etc... That a court should take actions against me etc etc... But I know I am right - I said that court would rather take actions against Duluman - because he said - "there is no Krishna"...
And I was right - court - Krishna, Yamaraja and other gods - they killed Duluman, and I am happy for that.
Even though he was "candidate of theology". One more point... Russian Church was also against Leo Tolstoy - big Russian vegetarian philoospher, who also studied Vedas. But that is different. Religions are contradicting each other at some points - that's why they are different.
But why should be interested in non-eternal religions? Maharishi Mahesh yogi quoted Manu-samhita - laws of Manu - that "Veda akhila dharma mula" - "Vedas are roots of all dharma(s), religion(s)". So, if we speak with atheists - yes - we support religions. But if we speak with people of other religions - we may see differences - and we take one side - of this or that religion.
So better take side of Krishna... But I hope ... at this time - when He came as Caitanya - He is not going to kill anyone, any demon or asura... So I don't know what happened in New Vrindavan. Maybe no one will know. If you say that that your site - angel108b@yahoo.com, - is not for religious people - then for whom?
If you write that - it means you made that site fro... atheists? for ... ir-religious people?
So then will we care for what you say - if you direct that criticism ... write all those stuff - ... for non-religious people? If you write it for someone outside ISKCON - then where are you now? in which religion? if you are outside ISKCON - maybe it is your fault - too much criticism of them... I agree - Prabhupada is most important for ISKCON.
Others are his students. Some students are bad - like Jesus had Judah - and he sold Jesus for few coins of money... But what is that? Do you really think someone like Judah was there among Prabhupada's disciples?
So. I feel I am not interested now in sites like yours. I'm gonna be in ISKCON, and even though some people there are not perfect - still we think of Krishna and Prabhupada.
If Arjuna was a killer - will you put Arjuna to your black-list? I am sure - you will...! And Krishna also killed asuras like Kamsa... And you will put Krishna in your black-list - I am sure! And Narasimha also killed Hiranyakasipu - and you will also put Narasimha in black-list of killers, dangerous "cult" section... Be careful! Krishna doesn't kill His devotees! Arjuna was Krihsna's devotee, but Krishna didn't kill him, yes? Narasimha also didn't kill Prahlada, right?
Of course you can say - that some people who killed each other in New Vrindavan - are not Vishnu or His avataras. That's right. SO they could have killed wrong persons. But... do you mean they killed some devotees like Prahlada and Arjuna? I hope not. Maybe if Prabhupada was poisoned... Well, but I feel Bhakti-Caru didn't know what medicine he was giving, and that poison was from Bhakti-Caru. This is what I see now - as a new devotee - who never met Prabhupada, and was born just in mid-1980s.
So. all your criticsm - angel108b@yahoo.com, is useless. www.harekrsna.org - is nonsensical site. Who cares for it? Only some atheists may read it and come to conclusion - "Hare Krishna is a sin! Prabhupada is biggest sinner! Krishna is biggest demon!" and so on... I think you are atheist, and demon,
angel108b@yahoo.com, you look like asura, demon. Sorry. But I feel it. And www.harekrsna.org - is demoniac theology. I am not interested in this anymore. If you like this cow-dung - you can go on remaining in it. Hare Krishna.
P.S. I repeat. Don't criticize any saint or devotee - he may be Swami or Goswami. or just das. If you criticise - you become more and more like Duluamn - who says - "there is not Krishna". "No Caitanya". "No Balarama". "THere is not Nityananda"... "Someone like you - Hare Krishnas, must be killed" "You must go to be treated in psychiatric hospital" etc... Do you want to be like him, like this atheist number one ? Then you can continue hosting www.harekrsna.org ...If no - then ... give up all kinds of www.harekrsna.org / angel108b@yahoo.com, - and surrender to Krishna. Even to those people on http://www.harekrsna.org/gbc/black.htm ...
Hare Krishna
[PADA: Well thanks very much. You have actually proven our case in point of fact. If someone is saying they are theist, and they are preaching atheist, we have to challenge them.
The GBC gurus say they are for Krishna, then they say Krishna's gurus and successors are fools,
hm... I sent some text to Duluman. But he just said you know what? he said: "why you are sending to me some garbage (гадости). in fact he - atheist equated preaching with garbage you see? how degraded this man was! i tried to save him a bit =-) so he by forced said krishna few times... though he hated to tell that. it seems he read books like Sectology by Dvrokin (man who tried to ban Bhagavad-gita as it is),and concluded that Hare Krishnas worship idols etc... by the way... like Dvorkin who started case agasint Bhagavad-Gita, Duluman also said - "you must be taken to court!"... i just answered: "well, no, you are to be taken to court, because you say that God in whom I believe (Krishna) doesn't exist" =-) I believed that krishna will help me if I'll be saying like Prabhupada used to criticize - "rascals, demons" etc etc... yes, Duluman is rascal, no doubt.
Here are a few videos that might help you figure more of this out ... ys pd]
Radhanath swami: http://youtu.be/ZoaeBdCaQ8I
Tamal Krishna and me: http://youtu.be/wMD6jyrLXwA
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